Mafia 2016

Hmmm, I think that The Disconnect are a much better match for The Disconnect than Counterparts are.

1337ness_of_teh_n00b wrote:

For clarity: YOU put forward the position that D1 lynching is bad because we are more likely to hit townies than scum, and because we need a buffer zone of townies in order to survive. You then, for reasons seemingly in total contradiction with this (and I tend to assume that town voting reasons will have some degree of coherence to them even when they're wrong, because they come from players who actually have scumhunting to do), decided that we ought to lynch someone for lurking (which is, effectively, a random lynch; note that it is a lynch, and not a modkill, because you deny them some of the time they had to start posting). From MY perspective, the only way to reconcile these inconsistencies is "you are Nathman's frustrated scumbuddy" (and I want to make it perfectly clear to everyone that at this point I am far more interested in convincing you guys to lynch Iced_Tea than I am in "doing the right thing by presenting a fair case").

The problem with this is that you assume I think like you, and you conceptualize a Nathman lynch as a random-lynch, whereas I conceptualized him as a no-lynch "If he gets modkilled anyway, lynching him is effectively the same as modkill but faster." My thought-process is an utter brainfart in retrospect, I agree, but it made sense to me at the time.

Also, if I in fact were Nathman's scum buddy I would try to give him as much time to show up as I can. You seem to be desperately grasping for straws here.

1337ness_of_teh_n00b wrote:

I can't accept this. As in, if I start accepting "I did not have that piece of public knowledge" as defence, then I'm stuck with "oh sorry I didn't know that I'm meant to wait for claims before hammering".

Now you're implying I'm just playing stupid? How nice of you.

Seriously though, I did have the public knowledge that modkills are done in such a ways that they disadvantage the faction of the modkilled player as much as possible. I just didn't make the connection between "modkill" and "modkill for inactivity". My brain is dumb sometimes.

1337ness_of_teh_n00b wrote:

The Disconnect is actually the most convincing part to me, I have literally never seen town make such a comment accompanied by such an unvote.

Wow, you're reading way too much into this.

1337ness_of_teh_n00b wrote:

I don't really care how you claim, in retrospect, that you were defining 'scumminess' at that point in time,

That's the thing though, it wasn't retrospect. I originally meant to make a more detailed explanation but didn't, sure, but even the one in my post should be clear enough unless you're actively looking to read into it. "I still feel that, out of all players currently active, he seems the most likely to be scum." You should be able to clearly discern that "most likely to be scum" doesn't necessarily mean "is scum". The only way you could read a disconnect into that is by confirmation bias, i.e. you had already made up your mind on calling me scum and were just looking for an excuse to point at.

1337ness_of_teh_n00b wrote:

in the same breath as labelling them as extremely suspicious or however you want to phrase it, unvoted them, and town does not do that.

I'm not sure how that would be particularily town-like or particularily scum-like. Having a suspicion of someone but being reasonable enough to realize the suspicion isn't substantial enough to justify a vote seems more town to me if anything.

1337ness_of_teh_n00b wrote:

I will start maindecking Draining Shield if I am somehow wrong about this.

I cannot fathom how you could even remotely think you're right about this, so I'm willing to take that bet. If I in fact turn out to be a townie, you have to maindeck Draining Shield at 3 in any deck you build in any format where the card is legal. If I flip scum, I'll start playing Snapcaster + Mentor in Vintage. Deal?

1337ness_of_teh_n00b wrote:

Captain Manlove, if/when Iced_Tea flips scum, how will you feel about the fact that you will likely be immediately lynched?

How do you figure?

I've been reading over the dialogue and I'm not sure if I'm missing some important step of logic you're making but I don't buy the angle of Iced's actions towards Nathman linking us as scum buddies. I can believe the idea that she was pushing for a quick townie kill for a player who cant respond to get D1 over with, but attempting to lynch your absent scum buddy 3 days into the game out of frustration just seems a bit too bold of a move, especially since lynching her buddy would lead to Iced being both the most active player and the only remaining scum against 4 or 5 townies on D2.

There's being a Frustrated Scum and then there's just wanting to lose.

I have to agree with Manlove here. Iced is pretty scummy in my book but it's unlikely that he actually is scum buddies with Nathman/Captain.
The fact that Nathman didn't post had little to do with the fact that he may or may not have been scum. I mean it is entirely possible that he might have been scum and thus not sure what to even post but it's just as if not more likely that he forgot to post and left us in a state of waiting until he was replaced

Cracked Fucking Atlas I Fucking Swear If You Do Not Post By The Time I Get Online Tomorrow I Am Going To Break Into The Mod's Account To Give Myself Vigging Powers And Shoot You.

I was going to yell at you all for not reading the thread but apparently I actually outright stated this:

Iced_Tea wrote:

Lynching Nathman is basically a no-lynch if he's inactive. No-lynch is what I'd prefer he he does show up, btw.

Yes, given the statements made in thread, it is 100% plausible that he was pushing his buddy, he gave himself an easy out very early on.

Vote Count 1.6
(2) Iced_Tea - Tunnel Snakes Rule, 1337ness_of_teh_n00b L-2!
(1) Tunnel Snakes Rule - Orandulum

Not Voting: Captain Manlove, Cracked Atlas, Melexiious, Iced_Tea

With 7 alive it takes 4 to lynch.

Day One Deadline

Votes haven't actually changed since last count, but a reminder is a reminder.

Also, Orandulum's replacement has 16 hours to turn up.

1337ness_of_teh_n00b wrote:

@Mod: Did AcRv let you know who this replacement is? Can you prod them on Facebook? I'm not exactly keen for a Nathman repeat

Nay.

1337ness_of_teh_n00b wrote:

Yes, given the statements made in thread, it is 100% plausible that he was pushing his buddy, he gave himself an easy out very early on.

I gave myself an easy out? Really? That sounds pretty... paranoid. Saying that it's basically a no-lynch isn't some next-level out-building, it's what I thought at the time. Disagreeing with you on whether or not a sped-up modkill is a no-lynch doesn't make me scum.

Also, and I hate to bring this up again, I'm new and at the time of writing that was in no way playing on the level of sophistication required to come up with some elaborate sheme to create an easy out or something. If I was playing with that much thought and skill at the time, I could've also forseen pushing for a Nathman lynch would be suspicious and I wouldn't have done it. It's logically incosistent to assume I'm way good at the game while at the same time relying on "slips" that only a bad player would make.

1337ness_of_teh_n00b wrote:

I'm not exactly keen for a Nathman repeat

Neither am I... OH WAIT I JUST EXPOSED MYSELF AS SCUM BY SAYING THAT BETTER SET UP AN EASY OUT

This isn't assuming any great level of 1337 skillz though. This is "fuck my scumbuddy ain't showing up damn I hate him so much I want to lynch him oh hey I guess that'll get me towncred oh shit what if he shows up oh I guess I'll just give myself a reason to unvote". I'm not assuming Machiavellian schemes, I'm assuming a pretty low-level and relatively, uh, emotionally-driven (no negative connotations intended) level of play.

1337ness_of_teh_n00b wrote:

This isn't assuming any great level of 1337 skillz though. This is "fuck my scumbuddy ain't showing up damn I hate him so much I want to lynch him oh hey I guess that'll get me towncred oh shit what if he shows up oh I guess I'll just give myself a reason to unvote". I'm not assuming Machiavellian schemes, I'm assuming a pretty low-level and relatively, uh, emotionally-driven (no negative connotations intended) level of play.

Sure, but isn't it just as plausible if not more that a townie could make the same emotionally-driven decision? I.e. "let's get this game going" or "fuck Nathman for stalling us"

I think it's reasonable to say that my wanting to lynch Nathman was emotionally driven, but I don't see how that makes him my scum buddy or makes me scum at all. I don't see myself getting pissed that much at my scum buddy just for not showing up (I don't see anyone doing that tbh), and if I did I would try to either give him as much time to return as possible or wait for a replacement (respectively only the former, as at the time I didn't realize replacements were a thing). In a game with only 2 scum, any halfway reasonable scum player would try to avoid losing their buddy as much as possible. As Manlove has said, purposely steering oneself into a 1-v-5 isn't scummy, it's just plain wanting to lose.

1337ness wrote:

Cracked Fucking Atlas I Fucking Swear If You Do Not Post By The Time I Get Online Tomorrow I Am Going To Break Into The Mod's Account To Give Myself Vigging Powers And Shoot You.

Yo?

But uh, no seriously, did you have anything specific you wanted me to respond to? Because I can't see anything. I mean, I know I haven't been super active, but I posted like, yesterday addressing a problem. Which has persisted. Also, I was moving furniture most of today.

Yeah, same here.
I kinda want to talk but I don't know what to chat about.

Hey Atlas, who do you think is correct out of Iced_Tea and 1337ness here?

I'm sorta planning on writing a really long post on that topic once I have a little more information. I'm pretty close to forming a conclusion, though.

I'm also super tired right now, so don't expect it tonight.

Orandulum, Macho Doctor, was modkilled on Day 1.

Night is 48 hours. Send your night actions, if any, to AcRv.

I'm back!

Thank you Krika for filling in during my absence.

To clarify, the Role PM of Orandulum was:

Quote :

Congratulations! You are a Town Macho Doctor!

Abilities: Every night phase you may PM me with the name of a player you want to protect for that night. If the player you are protecting was targetted for a kill that night, they will not die.
You may not protect yourself.
Any attempt to protect you will fail.
During the day phase, you may vote on who you want to see lynched.

Night is set to end at 1:37pm tomorrow. I will be unavailable at this time, so night might be a bit longer. I will ensure it is no more than an hour. Apologies for the inconvenience. Still aim to have your actions in at 1:37.

Nobody was killed last night.

Vote Count 2.0

Not Voting: 1337ness_of_teh_n00b, Cracked Atlas, Iced_Tea, Melexiious, Captain Manlove, Tunnel Snake Rule

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch!

I know that I will not be available at a deadline in exactly one week, so I'll give you eight days instead so as to avoid an unclear end of day time. Hope nobody minds. Link to exact countdown is below.

Day 2 Deadline

Alright, can someone with more extensive knowledge of the game list some or all of the ways in which the "nobody was killed last night" could've occured?

I'm going to assume we didn't have more than one doctor, so that's out. (Safe for a backup doctor.) I know there's a bunch of dodge roles (commuter and such) so maybe that. Or another protection role. IIRC it's also possible for scum to opt to not kill anyone, though I don't see why they would want to do that.

Nobody dying unfortunately doesn't give us much new information, though Orandulum's revealed role might (cus now we've got confirmed that he isn't scum).

Quote :

You may not protect yourself.
Any attempt to protect you will fail.

Damn, gotta prevent those guaranteed-to-fail self-protection attempts.

There is 99% another protective role in the game. Not necessarily Doctor, but something along the lines of Doc or Jailkeeper (yes this is an oversimplification but I think we can all be sane and leave it at that). Pointless modifiers don't really happen in "fair" games like this one.

Hmmmm, no deaths is potentially new information, but I'm not seeing it if it is.

Vote: Iced_Tea

We can no-lynch tomorrow if I'm wrong.

Will make a lengthy post later, but for now, uh, @Mod, can you tell us who ended up replacing Orandulum really badly? I wanna know who I'm meant to be angry at.

I think it would be safe to assume from Orandulum's role that other people in the game could very well have special modifiers, which I feel would be more believable than having 2 doctors/whatever protective roles in a 7 player game.
One-shot Bullet Proof would be a likely candidate, which protects from a single night-kill attempt, which i'd say makes more sense balance-wise than the alternative.

Either that or Mafia opted for no-Kill, which is doubtful but still entirely possible.

Manlove, read Orandulum's flip again.

He has a modifier which prevents people from protecting him.

This means that someone in the game is capable of protecting him, he would not have this modifier otherwise.

Someone else in this game is something along the lines of Doc/JK. It is not worth delving into it beyond this, because delving into it beyond this is just an invitation for the person who has the role capable of protecting Orandulum to say something dumb that'll get them shot.

1337ness_of_teh_n00b wrote:

Manlove, read  Orandulum's flip again.

He has a modifier which prevents people from protecting him.

This means that someone in the game is capable of protecting him, he would not have this modifier otherwise.

The post specifies he cant protect himself, and my assumption is the modifier was there simply to stop him from just covering his own ass and to make him actively be a good doctor.

While it is true that no one would be able to protect him, I still have trouble believing the possibility of 2 doctor-like players being in this game, as it would mean there'd be 2 night-saves for every night-kill, especially unbalanced with bulletproof in the mix. The only way I could believe the idea is if there was a second scummy faction in the mix like a serial killer or some similar role which, unless they both conveniently abstained/failed to kill last night, is just as hard to believe

Captain Manlove wrote:

The post specifies he cant protect himself, and my assumption is the modifier was there simply to stop him from just covering his own ass and to make him actively be a good doctor.

This. It's ridiculously unlikely Mod actually gave us 2 protective roles... unless he actively wants scum to lose. Something-bulletproof seems much more likely, or scum just forgetting to vote because lurking is more important.

@1337ness: Are you still trying to domestically violence kill me? Well I guess a kiss with a fist is better than none...

Also, fuck that purple guy who did 911 for abandoning us!